What Is Your Brand of Gratefulness?


Different life themes are grateful in different ways. John and Kim discuss the ways that Love, Justice, Wisdom, and Power Life Themes express their thanks. By knowing what “brand” of gratitude you and the people in your life have, you will know someone else doesn’t perceive your gratitude the way you think they should. This episode may save you and your family from many squabbles!
Episode 13
What is Your brand of Gratefulness? Podcast Transcript

Kim Eley (00:03):

Hi everyone and welcome back to Authentic Living, the podcast for a better Life. You are here with me, Kim Eley, and our other awesome co-host, John.

John Voris: Hello.

Kim Eley: Hello. And I’m going to kick off this episode by saying I’m thankful for you, John, and that we get to do this together.

John Voris (00:28):

. I certain, I certainly appreciate that.

Kim Eley (00:30):


John Voris (00:32):

I’m grateful to you as well.

Kim Eley (00:34):

Thank you.

John Voris (00:35):

I could not, I don’t, I don’t have the knowledge to put all this together, , so there you go.

Kim Eley (00:41):

Yeah. Glad to help. So, having said that, we’re going to introduce today’s topic, which is really timely for us right now, because we’re recording this during the holiday season. But it really is applicable anytime. And that is what is your brand of gratefulness.

John Voris (01:00):

Very good. Mm-Hmm. .

Kim Eley (01:02):

Yeah. So start us off, John. I really am interested to know, are different life themes grateful in different ways?

John Voris (01:13):

Cer certainly. And also I could start, start off with asking you a question.

Kim Eley (01:17):

Okay. Uhhuh.

John Voris (01:18):

. So, my question to you is, what gives you cause to be grateful?

Kim Eley (01:24):

Oh, good question. Definitely my husband. I always call him my B f F. I’m grateful for our house. I’m grateful for transportation and abundant amount of food. Super grateful for my family and friends and colleagues. Cause I really couldn’t be where I am today without them.

John Voris (01:48):

Very good. So why are you grateful to have a house over your—have a house? Why is that important?

Kim Eley (01:55):

Oh, gosh. Grateful to have shelter from the elements. A place to feel safe and warm and comfortable.

John Voris (02:04):

And why is that?

Kim Eley (02:08):

Cause I love being there with my husband and my cats who I adore. And just having that feeling of it, feeling like home.

John Voris (02:16):

Very, very good. So, so, and so our, our audience knows that you’re a love theme.

Kim Eley (02:23):

Yes. And

John Voris (02:24):

So as a love theme, this is where your gratitude really focuses. It’s on the people as animals in your life, it’s friends in your life. It’s a sense of wellbeing is what you’re focused on with regard. To the people in your life. And so this is, is what really guides you the love person throughout life. When it comes to being grateful. Of course, I’m doing this now in November, thinking the Thanksgiving is coming up, but, right.

But actually, actually this is—belongs more as attributed to every month of your life. Doesn’t matter. Sure. But by knowing what brand you have, you then know when someone else doesn’t perceive your gratitude the way you think they should. That you might know why maybe you’re talking to injustice person or maybe you’re talking to a power person. Because each four, each of the four has their own lexicon with regards to gratitude, the conditions of gratitude, why they should be feeling, feel grateful. What­—when should they be compelled to feel grateful? When is it that they’re, they refuse to feel grateful even though someone did something for them?

Kim Eley (03:42):

Hmm. Interesting. I definitely want to know more about that for my friends and family and colleagues. , I’m grateful. .

John Voris (03:51):

Sure. So being grateful has everything to do with what you value. What you value is the composite of your view of life itself.

Kim Eley (04:08):


John Voris (04:09):

Your values, your belief. Right. Okay. So you, your values and beliefs actually define the boundaries of gratitude within your life.

Kim Eley (04:21):


John Voris (04:23):

So when to express it, when not how you define it, how you, how you re don’t, et cetera. So with love the love theme. The gratitude begins with caring.

Kim Eley (04:38):


John Voris (04:39):

That’s how it starts. And because we care, we care about ourselves, about the people around us. Then we have many, many reasons to feel gratitude by the pure presence of them.

Kim Eley (04:56):


John Voris (04:56):

Presence. Nothing has to be done, but, right, gratitude to them being with us.

Kim Eley (05:02):


John Voris (05:03):

And so for the love people, they’re focused on people who are responsible for contributing to the happiness of their life,

Kim Eley (05:14):

Ah, their Wellbeing.

Kim Eley (05:16):

Truly. That definitely fits my criteria, .

John Voris (05:20):

And then when it comes to wisdom, they require rational behavior and purpose. So if they do something for me and it doesn’t make sense to me, then I don’t know where the gratefulness would fit in.

Kim Eley (05:35):


John Voris (05:36):

Yes. So well, let’s say someone affect my next door neighbor. or a neighbor of mine. Neighbor of mine. they offered to, to do something for me. And it didn’t make any sense. And so he, he, he app he acted as if it was something they were giving, he was giving to me. But it really wasn’t in my mind. It didn’t qualify. It’s a rational reason.

Kim Eley (06:12):


John Voris (06:14):

So when it comes to what are you grateful during Thanksgiving, it’s going to be for me what makes sense, what is rational, what is logical? And that’s it. Nothing outside of that.

Kim Eley (06:31):

So John, you know, I’m all about the physical, so what might be another example, because I don’t want you to out your neighbor. What might be another example of somebody, because you’re a wisdom life theme offering a, a, a gift to you, and you’re like, this isn’t rational.

John Voris (06:52):

Oh. Let’s say just so I let’s say a neighbor walks up and says, “here’s a plant, and they don’t know me and I understand what they’re doing, I get, get it right, but I don’t deal with plants.”

Kim Eley (07:11):

Oh. So it’s like, “why are you giving me this plant?”

John Voris (07:13):

Yeah. And so, okay. They, they said, well, we went shopping and this is an extra, “okay, all right, well, fine, I’ll take it. But now I feel it more of a burden.”

Kim Eley (07:24):

Ah, that’s interesting.

John Voris (07:26):

Because he didn’t know me.

Kim Eley (07:30):

Ah, gotcha.

John Voris (07:31):

And didn’t know, you know, my situation. And so I thanked him, of course, but it’s not, not doesn’t, didn’t qualify in my mind as gratitude.

Kim Eley (07:43):

So, and I do know you, I know this bit about you, that you really like Venus fly trap plants. So say instead of just a random plant, your neighborhood, giving you a Venus fly trap plant and said,” John, I know you love these,” that would be a rational gift.

John Voris (08:01):


Kim Eley (08:02):

Got it. Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. Okay.

John Voris (08:05):

Very, very, very, very happy.

Kim Eley (08:07):

. Awesome. .

John Voris (08:11):

So when it comes to the justice people, many people engage in grateful acts to establish a relationship, believe it or not. Either establish one, build one, maintain one. And of course, the justice theme, they’re always looking for, you know, what’s fair, right. And good in the world. And so when they see that, then they want to reward it. reciprocate. And so that’s their definition. That’s how they approach gratitude. And, and through this relationship process, they actually bring harmony into their life and hopefully bring harmony into the other.

Kim Eley (08:56):

Hmm. My immediate thought with that is, would that be similar to a new neighbor moves into the neighborhood and you want to form a relationship with them? So you specifically buy them a gift? Or am I not on the right track?

John Voris (09:16):

No. What I might do is say could you want to come over and just have some coffee?

Kim Eley (09:25):

Hmm. Okay. Oh, and that, that would be the rapport, the relationship.

John Voris (09:29):

Yeah. But, but see also with the, with the wisdom person, they, we, they have to have a reason. So I would have to create a reason.

John Voris (09:38):

One person might just walk up and say, “Hey, I’m your new neighbor, you wanna have some coffee?” That’s no problem for them.

Kim Eley (09:44):


John Voris (09:45):

So wisdom, they have to come up with a reason, and the, they just people, of course, they’re a combination of wisdom and and love. So they can do, do either one of ’em and just fine. They can have a reason or not.

Kim Eley (09:58):

Gotcha. Okay. So you would feel, you would be like, why as a wisdom life theme if somebody asks you to have coffee, but why are we discussing something specifically? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Ah, okay. Got it. Got it, got it. Okay. Okay.

John Voris (10:16):

So the last is the power. And the power is all about behavior. And power is focuses on not just the gift itself or, or, or the benefits, but what do you do after the benefits?

Kim Eley (10:35):

Hmm. Okay.

John Voris (10:36):

“I gave, I’m a power person. I gave you something and you didn’t think much of it, and you just said, well, I’ll just put it in the drawer here, or whatever. Then that really is a slap in my face.”

Kim Eley (10:51):


John Voris (10:53):

Okay. Or worse if you threw it in the trash and that would bother anybody. But remember, we always have all four quadrants, so we could certainly react that way, but with a power person there thereafter, this is a gift from me to you. You deal with respect, and then I’ll treat you in kind type

Kim Eley (11:14):

Hmm. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. I think I have an example for that, John, that I can share. So I worked with an awesome author client. Her name is Donna Highfill. And we created a book for her called Amazing Change. And it’s all about how she grew up as a preacher’s daughter. And specifically her father would fill in as a pastor in a congregation that was failing. They would be losing people. He would help build up the congregation, and then he would move on to the next one.

And he moved, he and his family moved into kind of a lower income neighborhood. There was a guy who was in the church, he became so excited about the pastor that he gave him a car to use. And this car did not really fit the pastor’s style. It, it was pretty flashy. It had like an extreme paint job. It had some really radical hubcaps. And at first the pastor was like, “oh, no, no, no, I can’t accept this” until he, he realized that he was really upsetting this congregation member, and ultimately decided, “oh, okay, yes, I will accept this gift.” And the whole congregation really embraced it.

John Voris (12:38):

I, I understand. Yes. And so here’s another good point to go with that is as maybe if someone gave me that car as a wisdom person, and I told them and, and I was speaking to a wisdom person, and I explained to them reasons for not, for me not taking it—

Kim Eley (13:03):


John Voris (13:04):

—When that would work for maybe, maybe both of us, if he was a wisdom. But if he showing him the reasons why I can’t have it, it won’t make any difference.

Kim Eley (13:15):

And I think that’s exactly what happened in this case, .

John Voris (13:20):

But on the other hand, because maybe he was a justice person or a love person, that he really felt the, and empathize with the congregation, I empathize with him, empathize with the situation he was in, realized as you said, that turning it down would be a true insult to him. Whereas with the power and wisdom, it’s not as much as a an insult provided a reasons given.

Kim Eley (13:50):

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

John Voris (13:53):

But I could say I could see that, but yeah, that that’s all they can do, give a flashy car. And so he, I rationalized himself through it and decided to keep it.

Kim Eley (14:03):

There we go. I think it’s a good also example of authentic systems, because we’ve talked about before objects have meaning. And obviously the, the flashy car did not fit with the pastor’s authentic identity, but yet, I guess he wanted to, “I’m going to say speak the language. He wanted to say, “oh, I’m so grateful to you, thank you for giving me this car.” Even though it wasn’t his style. .

John Voris (14:34):

Right. And also he could have been, if he was a justice person, he’s he he’s also realizing that a relationship is existing

Kim Eley (14:43):


John Voris (14:44):

And he has to empower that.

Kim Eley (14:47):

Yes. Oh, this is fascinating.

John Voris (14:51):

. Well, it all depends on which way you’re going, but the reason why I did this, I want to do this podcast, is because being grateful is not a one size fits all.

Kim Eley (15:03):

Mm. And—

John Voris (15:04):

—and everyone needs to understand that everyone else has a brand of generosity, a brand of appreciation. Right. Of brand of gratitude. And they, they, their interpretation may not comply with yours, but that’s what they’re really doing.

Kim Eley (15:22):

Right. Wow. So thinking about the holidays season is this one reason why often we have a lot of angst and anxiety around the gift giving surrounding a lot of holidays, ?

John Voris (15:39):

Oh, yes. Absolutely. Because, because it’s this, it’s the notion of, of gratitude is based on caring, but caring really is the foundation of our moral and ethical views.

Kim Eley (15:53):

Hmm mm-hmm.

John Voris (15:54):

. And so when it comes to a holiday, they’re supposed to be up and excited and full of love and participation. And so for those who are not that way, it’s very just full of anxiety. They don’t know what to do, what to say, they don’t know how to say it. They don’t know, they don’t want to offend anyone, but yet are they to hold onto their own feelings. And so then the other one is history

Kim Eley (16:23):

. Oh!

John Voris (16:25):

You’re, if you’re with family, you’re with history. And so now that’s true.

John Voris (16:30):

All things can pop up. And some other, we tried to push it to the side, but it, it comes up. So there’s all these feelings going around plus the event itself, Thanksgiving or Christmas or whatever it might be. And so all these have to do with expectations, and they’re moral and ethical. And that is—

Kim Eley (16:52):


John Voris (16:54):

— So you are, you’re a theme. You’re a theme.

Kim Eley (16:55):


John Voris (16:56):

So there’s, there’s an objective way of looking at morality and ethics that we share as a culture.

Kim Eley (17:02):


John Voris (17:03):

But there, but we still interpret it in our own way.

Kim Eley (17:08):

Interesting. So, so one thing I think it’d be interesting to explore would be maybe pitfalls, . What can we avoid if we know we’re a specific life theme? Maybe, maybe should we explore like what, what, you should not do? Like well, I guess anybody, I’m going to go on a limb and say anybody, if, if you give them a gift and then you have that, like you said, moral and ethical expectation, no matter who the other person is, if you like, throw their present away in the trash

John Voris (17:51):


Kim Eley (17:52):

In front of them, everybody’s going to get ticked. Right. That’s pretty universal .

John Voris (17:58):

That’s right.

Kim Eley (17:59):

That’s a big no-no. So don’t do that. But I, is is there an expectation, like for instance, I remember my mom, whenever a relative would give me a gift, let’s say months later, that relative comes to visit our house, my mom would be like, “be sure to display that gift front and center. So she, she or he can see it.” . Is that a particular output of gratitude or, or display?

John Voris (18:30):

Well, that that would be that’s her power quadrant at work.

Kim Eley (18:35):

Ah, okay. And why, why is that?

John Voris (18:39):

Because I’m show, I’m showing what I’m doing with the present after I was given the present.

Kim Eley (18:45):

Gotcha. So they, like you said, it’s showing what to the, the—what happens after the, the benefit. Oh, you gave me this gift and look, I’m using it.

John Voris (18:54):

Oh, yes. And also raise a good issue here. So if I know your love and you give me something, I’m going to explain to you how great this is for me, how I feel about it.

John Voris (19:09):

Happiness, I would show for of course, gratitude, but it would be all emotion. Now, if, if you were a justice person, I would des-describe what, what, how this will bring balance in my life.

Kim Eley (19:26):

Ah, okay.

John Voris (19:28):

What it is something I don’t have and I need, I’ve always, et cetera with the wisdom person. I would say I’ve always wanted this because I wanted to learn. I wanted to know how this works or functions or whatever it might be. And then for the power person I would explain what I’m going to do with it after I’m given, I’m going to—

Kim Eley (19:49):

Ah, meaning—

John Voris (19:50):

—that I really don’t like that much. But I, I’m tell, I’m going to put it up on my wall. now that now [where] the wall might be, the wall might be in the . Well, I’m going to put it wall.

Kim Eley (20:08):

I love it. That’s fantastic. All I think this is a good place for us to take a little quick break, but when we get back, we’re going to delve more into the brands of gratitude.


Kim Eley: Hi. So welcome back to Authentic Living, the podcast for a Better Life. And John, we’ve been talking about gratitude.

John Voris (20:36):


Kim Eley (20:37):

And, okay, I have a, I have a story I really want to share with you. Okay. This really happened.

So once upon a time in my corporate life, I had a, a wonderful colleague. I used to do IT support, and he and I ended up on the road a lot together, you know, traveling, gosh, we went to Texas, we went to North Dakota, we, we went everywhere, man. Kind of like Johnny Cash sings about. “I’ve been everywhere!”

And so I, I really, you know, it was holiday times I wanted to express to my colleague, you know, how much I valued our friendship. You know, we, we had a lot of great conversations. We were on the road a lot, so I wanted to give him something. And so for a holiday present, I knew from our conversations in the car that he really loved cars and vehicles. And so I thought, aha, I know the perfect present for him. So I went and got him a subscription. Have you heard of “Car and Driver Magazine?”

John Voris (21:50):


Kim Eley (21:50):

Uhhuh, yes. So I got him a subscription to “Car and Driver,” and I was like, “hot Diggity Dog. This is a great present for him. He’s gonna love it.”

And so we were in the office, my boss was around, so were some other people, and a bunch of us were exchanging presents. And so I went up to him and gave him, I think it was like a card. And then inside it said, “you’ve been given a subscription to Car and Driver Magazine,” and my friend is not known for his diplomacy. And so he opens up the card and he goes, “I already have a subscription to Car and Driver Magazine.”

And as a love person, I was crushed. I was like, “oh my God, he doesn’t like it.” And he’s just standing there. And luckily my boss was nearby and I adore our boss. And he came up and he goes, “well, you know what, so-and-so, since you already have a subscription to Car and Driver, why don’t you just use the subscription that Kim gave for you and extend your own subscription for another year?” And he was like, “oh, that makes sense.” And I went, “great. Problem solved.” And everybody was happy, but I never forgot that experience. .

John Voris (23:08):

Well I’m really glad you shared that because you just described a wisdom person probably then, and you, he all you had to do is come up with a reason, and you did, or your friend did.

Kim Eley (23:22):

My boss did.

John Voris (23:24):

The reason was sufficient for him.

Kim Eley (23:26):


John Voris (23:28):

And so, but that’s what he needed, and that’s what you provided, and that’s solved the problem. But all that does is points to you had an expectation that I’m giving a gift, so he must necessarily be happy.

Kim Eley (23:41):

Exactly. I was like shocked, frankly, when he said like, like snarky, like, “I already have a subscription to Car and Driver.” I was like, “well, excuse me,” .

John Voris (23:52):

That’s right. So yeah. So the, that’s, so what you described, and, and this is a very small story, is when you expand it to life itself is these things happen every day everywhere.

Kim Eley (24:05):


John Voris (24:06):

And people are not reacting the way that you think they should. And it’s all that is, is they have a different life theme. And once you understand the different life themes then the, there’s acceptance all around. For example what we need to know is we have our own lexicon of that we use language. It’s a, it’s a like a love language, a justice wisdom, power language we’ve learned throughout our life,

Kim Eley (24:37):


John Voris (24:37):

So we take words such as like, and love and maybe admire or the concept of gratitude. And each one has a boundary to it. Like we understand what like is, but we understand what love is, and we understand that there are similarities, but there are distinctions, and the distinctions are discovered at the boundary, the boundary of what examples you can provide that would qualified for liking and what examples you can find that qualify for love. And you could see that there is a difference. And sometimes the difference cannot be defined, but rather they can be discovered through association, which is what this is.

Kim Eley (25:27):


John Voris (25:27):

The entire dictionary is by association with abstract ideas, that’s called connotation. And then there’s def—words that are defined that are physical nature or denotative, and that’s two very separate ways of looking at life itself. But they each, each word has its own boundary, and that boundary is subject to the life theme.

Kim Eley (25:56):

Gotcha. Okay. So with like, and love and admire, I mean, the three are similar, right? Yeah. But, but they are not the same.

John Voris (26:07):

No, we know that.

Kim Eley (26:09):

Yeah. So would you say the boundary is in, in the comparison of one against the other? That is how you discover the boundary, meaning to, if you, if you compare what it is to like someone, or what it is to love someone, the , as they say, you know, the, the, the, the boundaries, the existence of categorization or, or where it fits in, has to do with when you compare the two to one another, right? Like, like, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard someone , this is like sad romantic stuff, but it’s like somebody tells the other person, “I like you, but I don’t love you.”

John Voris (27:06):


Kim Eley (27:07):

And that’s very sad. But, but, but, and then you can admire someone. Like for instance, you know, I admire Oprah Winfrey, but I neither, I like things she does, but I don’t like her love her because I don’t know her. The boundary is I don’t have a personal relationship. So is that kind of the boundaries that you’re talking about, right?

John Voris (27:29):

Of course. Yes.

Kim Eley (27:30):

Yes. Okay. Okay. I

John Voris (27:32):

Would, I would talk, it’s different. I know her. Yeah. Yeah.

Kim Eley (27:35):

Ah, okay. So it’s so, because I’m a love theme. My, my, my boundaries are different.

John Voris (27:40):

Yeah. Right, right. So you don’t know her. And so, so getting back to the difference between being in love, just wisdom and power person is if you’re a wisdom person you love, in order to express wisdom and when, and you express justice in order to express your wisdom, if you’re a wisdom person and you engage in power in order to express your wisdom, but when you’re expressing wisdom, you’re doing it for the sake of—

Kim Eley (28:15):

Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha, gotcha. So where else can we explore these boundaries? Like, like for instance what, what, what might be, I’m trying to think of a good way to say this. What might be the, the boundary of our gratitude for, for instance, tell me if I’m on the right track, because you, the example you, you mentioned about as a wisdom person, you are accepting or grateful for things, but it has to make sense. Right?

Kim Eley (28:55):

So your boundary would be if somebody gave you something and they feel like they’re well-meaning, like, John, I got you this, I don’t know. I’m trying to think of, you know, what it makes me think of, and I can’t remember where this came from. They, there was a description in literature of a person who was kind of a goober. And it was like, this person always had combs for the bald and caramels for the toothless . You ever heard that?

John Voris (29:26):


Kim Eley (29:28):

No. But, but that kind of irrationality like,” I have no teeth. Why the devil are you giving me this candy that’s gonna pull all my dentures out?” ?

Kim Eley (29:41):

Is that what you mean by the boundary? Like, “this just freaking makes no sense. Why are you giving me this?”

John Voris (29:47):

Right. That’s, yeah. That’s your version. Yes.

Kim Eley (29:49):

Okay. That’s, that—

John Voris (29:50):

That makes sense to a lot of people. Okay. right. , I’ll give you, I’ll give you one. I have a good friend and what she did is here I have the books I have, you know, are Heidigger and Hael and Lahan and and Jaspers and Jung, all those people. So here she gives me a book about Winnie the Pooh.

Kim Eley (30:21):

.That’s a good example. , you’re like, “eh?”

John Voris (30:27):

. So it’s like, “why?” So I’m going to, and here’s another one, here’s another difference right here. I will appreciate the gift, but I will not be grateful.

Kim Eley (30:43):

Oh. So explain the difference between appreciation and gratitude. Then in that instance—

John Voris (30:49):

Gratitude, gratitude really goes far more, far deeper. And, and, and when you take it to the nth degree, it really does get spiritual.

Kim Eley (30:57):

Ah, okay. Gotcha. Gotcha.

John Voris (30:58):

That’s why when they, people during the holidays when they talk about being grateful, they’re really in touch with the spiritual side of their life. And many of them are doing it through prayer.

Kim Eley (31:11):


John Voris (31:13):

And many, they’re at the dinner table for Thanksgiving, and everyone is supposed to reveal what they’re grateful for and in, in a very somber and divine way. And so that’s the difference. Now, I appreciate I appreciate what she did for me because I wouldn’t be rude about it, but that’s the end of it. That’s all. That’s all I can do. I, yeah. So thank you.

Kim Eley (31:36):

Right, right, right.

John Voris (31:39):

Also, when someone gives you something you just can’t use, thank you. But I don’t appreciate it.

Kim Eley (31:44):

So if somebody uses, because that immediately makes me think of the expression, it’s the thought that counts.

John Voris (31:50):


Kim Eley (31:51):

Not necessarily, , not that. Yeah. That’s another good point too. So you’ve got, you’ve got the thought that counts and, you know, that generally holds, but the object itself is quite often sometimes irrelevant. Or maybe for some people the object is relevant and the thought isn’t.

Kim Eley (32:10):

Ooh, okay. Gotcha.

John Voris (32:13):


Kim Eley (32:14):


John Voris (32:14):

So, so maybe there’s something you need and I’ll just get it to you for the sake of you needing it. And I’m not really trying to appease your sense of friendship whatsoever.

Kim Eley (32:28):

Right. Hmm.

John Voris (32:30):

That’s interesting.

Kim Eley (32:32):

Boy, this gets very complicated . Oh, yeah.

John Voris (32:36):

But it, it can be you, you can, you, you can, you can filter it through the four life themes and then, and begin to make sense when you see how one person reacts to things like, like, and love, admire gratitude. It’s, it’s in many other words, and they’re all pulling it together. They’re all tethered to their authentic identity.

Kim Eley (32:57):


John Voris (32:58):

That’s the whole, that’s the point. And, and, and in the world of psychology, they very well know that, when you go into psychotherapy, you’re dealing with words.

Kim Eley (33:11):


John Voris (33:13):

So you’re speaking and I’m listening and I’m listening and you’re speaking,

Kim Eley (33:17):


John Voris (33:19):

That’s it.

Kim Eley (33:20):

Mm-Hmm. .

John Voris (33:21):

And so out of that, we’re supposed to extrapolate psychology, your psych, your psychic state, and we do, but to a point. But the point is, is that all we have is this language, and it’s only one small part of the communication.

Kim Eley (33:38):

Ah, the a You’re saying basically the verbal language is just a small piece. Because if you can’t, for instance, see someone, you, are you saying maybe like, there’s also body language and circumstances, circumstances we’ll get—

John Voris (33:55):

No, no wait. We’ll get to body language. Okay. Okay. Body language that’s really been blown out. Body language works with people, you know body language works in a public arena, for example, a park. So you see a couple and they’re holding hands and walking through the park gives you feelings. Then you see the people on—old, old people sitting on a bench and they’re reading, that gives you another sense. So the, the maybe someone’s leaning up against a poll and just looking at the view. That’s another sense. So all that does work, but that’s in a very general public way. Now when you know someone, then, you know, when they speak and you watch their body language, the body language now means something. Because you’ve seen them for a long time.

Kim Eley (34:47):


John Voris (34:47):

But body language in and of itself is an accent to the communica—the communication effort. So for example I use this in my classes as if someone walks up and says, “the only sentence you have is hand me the gun, so hand me the gun, the cop says to the robber,” well, now you have a sense of there’s not going to be anymore mayhem. Everyone’s safe. It’s, and with the good wins. Now, one of the robbers said to the cop, “hand me the gun.” Now the words you spoke are the same. The body language can be exactly the same. Doesn’t matter.

Kim Eley (35:36):

Right. But—

John Voris (35:37):

It’s the environment that defines it.

Kim Eley (35:41):


John Voris (35:43):

So, “hand me the gun,” the dying man said to his wife.

Kim Eley (35:47):


John Voris (35:48):

Yeah, “hand me the gun,” the father said to the son playing Russian roulette in the closet.

Kim Eley (35:54):


John Voris (35:55):

“Hand me the gun,” the client said to the jeweler.

Kim Eley (36:02):


John Voris (36:04):

So there’s lots of things happening.

Kim Eley (36:08):


John Voris (36:08):

It’s all about the environment.

Kim Eley (36:10):

Right. That’s, that’s really cool. Yes. , that’s a huge difference.

John Voris (36:17):

Yeah. So the other is it, the, they misunderstood that came, I’m going to, I I’ll have a podcast on that too. Yeah. The misunderstanding of what body language is and what it’s not and how it will be misquoted. And the idea is that body language only contributes too slightly. The what’s being said, the difference is, is that people watch body language more than the words themselves.

Kim Eley (36:49):


John Voris (36:50):

That’s the difference.

Kim Eley (36:52):

We’ll look at that. Ah, okay. Good to know.

John Voris (36:54):

So if if, if, if you said if you’re sitting in a chair and say, ‘I’m going to hit you over the head with a bat,” there’s no bat around, it doesn’t mean much.

Kim Eley (37:08):

. Right, right, right.

John Voris (37:11):

I mean, it, it’s just body language has to be congruent with the situation.

Kim Eley (37:16):

That makes sense. That makes sense.

John Voris (37:19):

The other thing about the like and dislike, I was just thinking—

Kim Eley (37:23):


John Voris (37:23):

—you can love your parents, but not like them.

Kim Eley (37:27):

Ooh. Yep. That’s a boundary thing.

John Voris (37:30):

You can love your children and not like them.

Kim Eley (37:32):


John Voris (37:33):

Another boundary.

Kim Eley (37:34):

Yeah. Gotcha. So yeah, I think that’s an important distinction.

So I guess my question, my question would be, if you’re going into a, a place where let’s say there’s gift giving, there’s g you know, expectations of gratitude, how can our listeners prepare themselves? First of all, get an assessment, learn which life theme you are. But, but beyond that, how do, how do you, do you create that awareness of your expectations? Is that sort of step one before you walk into a situation like that?

John Voris (38:16):

Right. So, so what I do is I first decide which quadrant they belong in. And so if I’m going to buy a gift for a wisdom person, and the other thing is I do is I look around them and see what objects they have in their life that also will tell me their motivation. So I would understand that and say, “okay, now I know what that person wants.”

Kim Eley (38:40):


John Voris (38:40):

With the powers the same and the justice and love is the same. So you look at them and you make their decision that way and know and decide which they may are and go accordingly.

Kim Eley (38:52):

Awesome. I love that. I think going into a situation, well, heck, any, any situation it’s so helpful to know what the other person’s, you know life theme is and what their, you know, what, what matters to them. Any situation, but especially something that seems especially weighted and intense, like gratitude, gift giving and expectations.

John Voris (39:20):

Yes. And then there’s subtle gratitude, for example, in, in marriages.

Kim Eley (39:24):

Mm-Hmm. .

John Voris (39:25):

So there’s there, that’s, there’s sometimes when one person feels they’re taken advantage of.

Kim Eley (39:32):


John Voris (39:33):

Because, but maybe it’s because the other person is really showing gratitude, but the other person is not receiving it.

Kim Eley (39:40):

Gotcha. And that, that kind of alludes to, I think something we had talked about before with the physical and abstract results, right. Like you had shared about I think your wife would say, oh, I picked up the dry cleaning, right? And then you would say, “oh, let’s go to dinner.” And there would be a mismatch because you as an abstract person would be like, “so what, you picked up the dry cleaning,” not that, not that you would be flippant like , I understand.

John Voris (40:11):

No, no, you’re right. No,

Kim Eley (40:12):

I didn’t. Yeah.

John Voris (40:13):

Yeah. But now if she invited me to dinner, then that would be really great.

Kim Eley (40:20):


John Voris (40:21):

The best gifts I ever had was where somebody bought me tickets to a show, a drama.

Kim Eley (40:28):


John Voris (40:29):

Oh, yes. I loved it because it was all abstract, you know?

Kim Eley (40:33):

Yes. I love that.

John Voris (40:38):

Add marriages and also employer, employee relationships.

Kim Eley (40:43):


John Voris (40:44):

Okay. And friendships. Yes. And so all of this is decide is, involves not only friendship, but gratitude and when it should be shown and what’s expected. And once you learn the themes of yourself and on the others, then it becomes far easier. And actually it can be, you can be predictive.

Kim Eley (41:07):

Yes. I love it. So as we’re winding down, if somebody’s listening to this and they’re like,” dang it, before I give another gift, I need to know what that other person’s life theme is and what mine is!”

John, how can somebody find out and do an assessment with you?

John Voris (41:24):

Well, one is send me an email to john@authentic-systems.com, and the other is to go to www.johnvoris.com.

Kim Eley (41:36):


John Voris (41:37):

And send me—go through the props and I can set up an appointment with you and just have a discussion.

Kim Eley (41:45):

Fantastic. And y’all, it is so worth it. I truly, truly am not just saying this because I do this podcast and because John and I do this together, I really use authentic systems all the time in my work as a book coach and a publisher. So John, thank you so much for another fascinating discussion.

About the author

CEO of Authentic Systems, Degree in Philosophy from University of California, Berkeley.

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